IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 PDED Ad Hoc Meeting Summary

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Agenda for PDED Ad Hoc meeting in San Antonio in September 2016 10 Nov 2016 Authors: Name Company Phone email +61 2 84461010 +61 418 656587 Andrew Myles Cisco amyles@cisco.com Submission Slide 1 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Welcome to the first (last?) F2F meeting of the IEEE 802.11 PDED Ad Hoc PDED stands for Preamble Detect Energy Detect PDED is an attempt to encapsulate the goal of the group which is to discuss issues related to the 3GPP RAN1 request to IEEE 802.11 WG to adopt an ED of -72dBm The IEEE 802.11 PDED Ad Hoc was formed in September 2016 at the Warsaw interim meeting Andrew Myles was appointed as Chair We may be meeting twice this week Tuesday AM2 Thursday PM1 (may be cancelled if complete work on Tuesday) Submission Slide 2 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The first task for the PDED ad hoc today is to appoint a secretary It is important to keep proper minutes of all PDED meetings However, it is generally not practical to Chair a meeting and take minutes at the same time Especially without a recording Therefore we need a volunteer for a Secretary At least for this session and thanks to Thomas Derham & Dick Roy for volunteering during the teleconferences The rewards for the Secretary are numerous Power over the ad hoc Respect from your peers and a beverage from the Chair Submission Slide 3 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The PDED ad hoc will review the official IEEE-SA patent material for pre-PAR groups All IEEE-SA standards meetings shall be conducted in compliance with all applicable laws, including antitrust and competition laws. Don t discuss the interpretation, validity, or essentiality of patents/patent claims. Don t discuss specific license rates, terms, or conditions. Relative costs, including licensing costs of essential patent claims, of different technical approaches may be discussed in standards development meetings. Technical considerations remain primary focus Don t discuss or engage in the fixing of product prices, allocation of customers, or division of sales markets. Don t discuss the status or substance of ongoing or threatened litigation. Don t be silent if inappropriate topics are discussed do formally object. Submission Slide 4 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The PDED ad hoc will review the official IEEE-SA patent material for pre-PAR groups If you have questions: Contact the IEEE-SA Standards Board Patent Committee Administrator at patcom@ieee.org Visit standards.ieee.org/about/sasb/patcom/index.html See IEEE-SA Standards Board Operations Manual, clause 5.3.10 and Promoting Competition and Innovation: What You Need to Know about the IEEE Standards Association's Antitrust and Competition Policy for more details. This slide set is available at: development.standards.ieee.org/myproject/Public/mytools/mob/slideset.ppt Submission Slide 5 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Links are available to a variety of other useful resources Link to IEEE Disclosure of Affiliation http://standards.ieee.org/faqs/affiliationFAQ.html Links to IEEE Antitrust Guidelines http://standards.ieee.org/resources/antitrust-guidelines.pdf Link to IEEE Code of Ethics http://www.ieee.org/web/membership/ethics/code_ethics.html Link to IEEE Patent Policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Submission Slide 6 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The PDED ad hoc will operate using accepted principles of meeting etiquette IEEE 802 is a world-wide professional technical organization Meetings shall be conducted in an orderly and professional manner in accordance with the policies and procedures governed by the organization Individuals shall address the technical content of the subject under consideration and refrain from making personal comments to or about others Submission Slide 7 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The PDED ad hoc will consider a proposed agenda Proposed Agenda Bureaucratic stuff Done! Why was the PDED ad hoc formed? Quick summary What happened at the teleconferences? Quick summary What is happening this week? Presentations (at least one) What are the next steps? Possible proposal to Wednesday or Friday plenary Other business One item from WG Chair Any objections to this agenda? Submission Slide 8 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Why was the PDED ad hoc formed? Submission Slide 9 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The formation of the ad hoc was based on a LS from 3GPP RAN1 and documents presented to 802.19/11 Original liaison from 3GPP RAN1 IEEE 802 liaison to 3GPP RAN Made original request IEEE 802 documents pre-ad hoc 19-16-0110-00 by Andrew Myles Described issue and a variety of possible responses in IEEE 802.19 WG 11-16-1263-00 by Andrew Myles Summarised issue for IEEE 802.11 WG; led to ad hoc Submission Slide 10 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 3GPP RAN1 & IEEE 802 are having an ongoing discussion related to LAA s ED threshold The IEEE 802 review of LAA Rel. 13 resulted in IEEE 802 requesting 3GPP RAN1 to make LAA more sensitive to 802.11 transmissions: See Comment 3 in 19-16-0037-09 for details (March 2016) 3GPP RAN1 rejected the request on the basis that they have had considerable debate and have agreed there is not a problem, but without responding to the particular issues raised by IEEE 802 See Response 3 in R1-166040 (June 2016) IEEE 802 responded by noting that 3GPP RAN1 s assertions are based on invalid assumptions about common 802.11 deployments and asking 3GPP RAN1 to rerun their simulations with more realistic assumptions See IEEE 802 liaison to 3GPP RAN (August 2016) The issue is currently still open and unresolved Submission Slide 11 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 3GPP RAN1 are now requesting that 802.11 also adopt a lowered ED threshold of -72dBm In R1-166040 (June 2016), 3GPP RAN1 further suggested that 802.11 be redefined to also use an ED of -72dBm in the future ... RAN1 respectfully requests future IEEE 802.11 technologies to align the energy detection threshold used with other technologies operating in the same unlicensed band, e.g., -72 dBm. An energy detection threshold of -72 dBm has been chosen by 3GPP for Rel-13 LAA also with an interest in aligning with other technologies in the future. rather than the currently defined ED of -62dBm (and PD of -82dBm) Such a change would mean that 802.11 would defer to LAA (and 802.11) at the same ED threshold that LAA currently defers to 802.11 Submission Slide 12 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 IEEE 802 have not yet responded to 3GPP RAN1 s request for 802.11 to use ED threshold of -72dBm In July 2016, IEEE 802.19 WG focused on responding to 3GPP RAN1 s responses on the twelve open issues in IEEE 802 s March 2016 liaison It did not respond to 3GPP RAN1 s request for ED = -72dBm In Sept 2016, a thought piece was presented to IEEE 802.19 WG that discussed some possible responses to 3GPP RAN1 s request See 19-16-0110-00 (by Andrew Myles, the author of this summary) After discussion in the IEEE 802.19 WG, there was consensus that the request really needs to be considered by IEEE 802.11 WG It is probably of particular interest to IEEE 802.11 TGax from a technical perspective A timely response probably requires IEEE 802 to develop a response out of the Nov 2016 plenary Although it was suggested by an 802.19 participant that IEEE 802 could simply ignore the request Submission Slide 13 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 There are many related issues that need to be addressed before responding to 3GPP RAN1 Some potential related (mostly technical) issues What is the effect of ED = -72dBm on billions of legacy devices? Does an ED = -72 dBm make sense when 802.11ax is focusing on improved frequency reuse? Should IEEE 802 continue recommending that LAA should be more sensitive to 802.11 transmissions? Should IEEE 802 recommend that LAA adopt 802.11 ED/PD levels? Should IEEE 802 recommend that LAA use 802.11 preambles (or CTS- to-self wrappers) to make it easier for 802.11 to detect LAA? How should IEEE 802 deal with related proposals in ETSI BRAN that the next revision of EN 301 893 specify an ED = -72dBm? Submission Slide 14 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 How should IEEE 802.11 WG consider the issues related to 3GPP RAN1 s request for a new 802.11 ED? Some options for IEEE 802.11 WG action (out of Nov plenary?) Votes for different option during straw poll during Wednesday plenary in Warsaw (from memory) Do nothing - few Leave it to IEEE 802.19 WG - none Ask IEEE 802.11 TGax to consider the request - some And associated issues Establish an IEEE 802.11 WG ad hoc to consider the request - many And associated issues others? Submission Slide 15 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 It was noted at the 1st teleconference that EN 301 893 is another reason to consider the ED question The next version of EN 301 893 is likely to require an ED of -72dBm, but has an exception to allow ED of -62dBm for IEEE 802.11ac EN 301 893 documents requirements for Europe and other parts of the world The following version of EN 301 893 may require an ED of -72dBm, with no exception for any version if IEEE 802.11ax This is subject to an evaluation at the time The blanket rule is in the interests of technology neutrality This suggests it might be a good idea to evaluate the pro s and con s of an ED of -72dBm now It will inform development efforts for IEEE 802.1ax in general but particularly in the context of frequency reuse It will inform the ETSI BRAN evaluation of the next EN 301 893 revision Submission Slide 16 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What happened at the teleconferences? Submission Slide 17 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 There have been a series of teleconferences before this plenary meeting in San Antonio The PDED ad hoc held teleconferences Tuesday, 27 Sep @ 2pm PT Tuesday, 4 Oct @ 2pm PT (cancelled; lack of submissions) Tuesday, 11 Oct @ 2pm PT Tuesday, 18 Oct @ 2pm PT (cancelled; clashed with WFA meeting) Tuesday, 25 Oct @ 2pm PT Tuesday, 1 Nov @ 2pm PT (cancelled; to allow prep for San Antonio) Submission Slide 18 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The first teleconference introduced the group and proposed at least one path forward First teleconference (27 Sept 2016) details Agenda Minutes (any objections to the minutes?) First teleconference summary Chair introduced aims of group Chair summarised the 3GPP RAN1 request for ED of -72dBm Chair noted that ETSI BRAN activities suggests IEEE 802.11 is going to have to deal with this issue at some point Chair suggested an evaluation mechanism based on testing/simulation Chair made call for submissions/ideas Submission Slide 19 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The third teleconference introduced the group and proposed at least one path forward Third teleconference (11 Oct 2016) details Agenda Minutes (any objections to the minutes?) Third teleconference summary Chair introduced aims of group Brainstorming PD is important for legacy 802.11, and likely for frequency re-use in 802.11ax LAA does not use PD despite previous suggestions from 802.11 ETSI not relevant to question about whether PD should be used Agreed that the RAN1 request for -72dBm is shorthand Chair made a request for future submissions Submission Slide 20 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The fifth teleconference introduced the group and proposed at least one path forward Fifth teleconference (25 Oct 2016) details Agenda Minutes (any objections to the minutes?) Fifth teleconference summary Thomas Derham (Broadcom) presented 11-16-1344-00 proposing a response IEEE 802 should respond to 3GPP stating the request is noted IEEE 802 should reiterate its position that LAA adopting 802.11 PD and reservation signaling (e.g. CTS-to-self) is the best solution for coexistence in the 5 GHz band IEEE 802 and 3GPP may continue to study, communicate and collaborate towards optimizing coexistence between their respective technologies in the 5 GHz band Thomas agreed to write the first draft of a response Submission Slide 21 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What is happening this week? Submission Slide 22 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What is happening this week? The ad hoc will hear various presentations Simulations on the effects of changing the ED threshold from a system performance perspective Yuichi Morioka (Sony) 11-16-1451-00 Conclusion of above presentation is In this contribution, we proposed to reject 3GPP RAN1 s request to change 802.11 s ED threshold from -62dBm to -72dBm As it is not realistic to change legacy STAs behavior, we analyzed case B) some 802.11 STA uses ED of -72dBm , where 802.11ax STAs use the new threshold In this coexistence scenario, performance of 802.11ax STAs significantly degrade, hence the request to change all new 802.11 STAs to adopt the new threshold should be rejected Submission Slide 23 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? Submission Slide 24 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? The ad hoc will discuss a variety of approaches Approach 1 Send short LS now (given lack of additional technical data) Close ad hoc now Approach 3 Do nothing now (given lack of additional technical data) Send longer technical LS later based on additional information Close ad hoc later Approach 2 Send short LS now (given lack of additional technical data) Send longer technical LS later based on additional information Close ad hoc later Approach 4 Do nothing now Close ad hoc Others? Submission Slide 25 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? The ad hoc will discuss a draft LS to 3GPP RAN1 A draft response to 3GPP RAN1has been developed by Thomas Derham (Broadcom) that is aligned with 11-16-1344-00 See 11-16-1493-00 This approach is also aligned with option 1 or option 2 Thomas Derham is not here this week but the draft will be presented by a colleague from Broadcom Submission Slide 26 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? The ad hoc may consider a motion recommending the draft Motion The IEEE 802.11 PDED ad hoc recommends to the IEEE 802.11 WG that 11-16-1493-01 be sent to 3GPP RAN1 in response to their request that IEEE 802.11 adopt an ED of -72dBm. The Chair of the IEEE 802.11 PDED ad hoc has editorial license. Moved: Seconded: Result: Note: anyone in room may vote Submission Slide 27 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Update: the LS to 3GPP RAN1 was approved by the IEEE 802.11 WG The IEEE 802.11 WG considered and approved the LS to the 3GPP RAN1 (11-16-1493-04 after editorial changes) At the time, the IEEE 802 WG Chair expressed a preference that the LS be sent by the IEEE 802.11 WG Chair He has given authority to make the change Subsequently the IEEE 802 EC Chair expressed a preference the the LS be sent by the IEEE 802 EC Chair On basis the original LS from 3GPP RAN1 was sent to IEEE 802 The IEEE 802 EC will be considering approval of the LS on Friday If it is not approved then the LS will be sent by the IEEE 802.11 WG Chair Submission Slide 28 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? The ad hoc may consider closing down Assuming the ad hoc recommends sending a short LS what should it do next? Wait to respond to any 3GPP RAN1 reply Aim to provide a more detailed response as more information becomes available? eg simulations Continue considering the same issue in the context of the next revision of EN 301 893, for which an ED of -72dBm (scaled for transmit power) will be considered The next version requires ED of -72dBm but has an exception for 802.11a/n/ac That exception may not be available for 802.11ax unless we make an alternate case Shut down? Submission Slide 29 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? The ad hoc may consider a motion recommending continuation Motion The IEEE 802.11 PDED ad hoc recommends to the IEEE 802.11 WG that the ad hoc continue its work, with the goals of: Sending another LS based on more evidence (if it becomes available) Considering ED/PD in the context of the next revision of EN 301 893 Moved: Seconded: Result: Note: anyone in room may vote Submission Slide 30 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 What are the next steps? The ad hoc may consider a motion recommending shut down Motion The IEEE 802.11 PDED ad hoc recommends to the IEEE 802.11 WG that the ad hoc shut down Moved: Seconded: Result: Note: anyone in room may vote Submission Slide 31 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Update: the ad hoc needs a plan if we decide to continue The ad hoc will need to decide when and how many teleconferences are held Suggest one or two; maybe one before Christmas and/or one after Christmas The ad hoc will need to decide when and how many sessions are held in Atlanta Suggest two; Tuesday and Wednesday The key to any decision is what work we need to do, which will be driven by whether: A reply LS is received from 3GPP RAN1 This is up to 3GPP RAN; when is their next meeting? Further simulation work is submitted Does Yuichi Morioka (Sony) have plans? Someone provides a summary of the EN 301 893 situation Andrew Myles (Cisco) volunteers! Submission Slide 32 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Other business? Submission Slide 33 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The IEEE 802.11 Chair has asked the ad hoc for a recommendation on recent 3GPP RAN LS The IEEE 802.11 Chair has asked the IEEE 802 PDED ad hoc to consider a response to 3GPP RAN1 s LS 16-11-1343-00 This is the LS in which 3GPP RAN1 told us they do not yet have an answer to IEEE 802 s original LS on open LAA technical issues The PDED ad hoc Chair s intuition is either we should: Do nothing (beyond asking the 802.11 WG Chair to send an e-mail acknowledging receipt) Send a response highlighting the important of closing these issues before Rel 13 is completed and encouraging 3GPP RAN1 to send us proposals for closing the issues ASAP Other views are invited, as are proposals for resolution Submission Slide 34 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 Other business? The ad hoc may consider a motion relating to 3GPP RAN1 s LS 16-11-1343 Motion The IEEE 802.11 PDED ad hoc recommends to the IEEE 802.11 WG not to respond to 3GPP RAN1 s LS 16-11-1343 at this time Moved: Seconded: Result: Note: anyone in room may vote Submission Slide 35 Andrew Myles, Cisco

doc.: IEEE 802.11-16/1307r6 Nov 2016 The PDED ad hoc meeting is adjourned! Submission Slide 36 Andrew Myles, Cisco